Macerich CEO Jackson Hsieh On the Mall Giant’s Turnaround

On March 1, 2024, Jackson Hsieh, a veteran investment banking and real estate investment trust (REIT) executive with no experience running shopping centers, took over as president and CEO of Macerich, a publicly traded REIT and one of the country’s leading owners and operators of malls. 

The company owned 41 million square feet of real estate across 38 retail centers as of June of this year. (Hsieh also joined the REIT’s board of directors.) 

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Quickly identifying a number of organizational challenges, Hsieh — who previously spent seven years as president and CEO of Spirit Realty Capital, and was also once a managing director and vice chairman of investment banking at Morgan Stanley and vice chairman and head of UBS’s real estate investment banking group — spent the first three months educating himself on the company and the industry.

He visited Macerich properties and formulated what he calls the “Path Forward Plan,” a road map for the company to accomplish three key objectives between 2024 and 2028: simplify the business, improve operational performance and reduce leverage.

Hsieh spoke to Commercial Observer from his company’s Midtown Manhattan office two days before Thanksgiving about the challenges he’s faced in the role, some of the changes he’s implemented and what he foresees for Macerich’s future. 

This conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Commercial Observer: You took over at Macerich on March 1, 2024. What were the greatest challenges you faced?

Jackson Hsieh: The biggest challenge was my lack of shopping center operating experience. I came from investment banking and REITs. I was running a triple-net REIT. 

When I got here, the stock was at or below the IPO price 30 years ago. The company had a strategy. I was going to evaluate whether it was the right one. I had a mandate from the board to bring the company to a better place financially and operationally, and to chart a new course if necessary. In time, that led to the Path Forward Plan.

Talk about how that plan was developed. 

It started to come together in my first 45 days on the job. 

My first 30 days was about trying to understand what this organization is or isn’t. I quickly realized that we didn’t have a strategy. We didn’t have a mission statement or a clear set of corporate values. We didn’t have the organizational setup to create success. And we didn’t have criteria for understanding the real estate. There were a lot of different opinions as to what’s good real estate and what’s not. I knew we would have to come up with a ranking system because it didn’t exist. 

I called all the company’s leaders to New York. I said, “We’re going to spend two days, lock ourselves in a room and come up with a mission statement. Let’s talk about core values. Let’s come up with a ranking system so we understand what’s important and what’s not.”

I started that meeting by saying, “I think Santa Monica Place is not part of this.” And people were basically freaking out. [Macerich returned that mall to its lender in June 2024.] 

I gave my reasons why, and then I listened to everybody else’s reasons why this was such a core asset for us. And, as we discussed this, we started to come up with a ranking system for what’s important. Is trade area important? Is competition important? Financial metrics? Criteria started to evolve. We have a very set ranking system now. That was the foundation for Path Forward. 

We developed a process improvement committee and a customer relationship management (CRM) as we didn’t really have systems and processes in place before. We needed a system where all of our people could understand what’s happening with leasing and tenant dialogue, and we needed it fast. 

Then I realized we didn’t have a five-year business plan. The corporate model didn’t exist. So that was an important piece of the puzzle. 

When you started at Macerich, the company had posted losses for five years running. How did that initially impact your decision-making?

I didn’t think about the losses so much. This is a company that has great competency, and, in retail, it was just shackled down. I felt like I walked into an organization that lacked empowerment. Initially it was about, how do I reduce debt and leverage? I know how to do that. My background is 30 years on Wall Street.

But what I quickly realized was that creating thriving shopping centers is not really related to reducing leverage. It’s about trying to get the initial portfolio down to a smaller portfolio of assets that we believe in long term. It’s monetizing non-core assets and other assets that can generate cash to pay down debt. It’s trying to increase permanent occupancy and reducing the amount of temporary tenants and vacancies in the portfolio. By doing that, you put the best tenants — the right tenants — into the merchandising plan. 

It also means trying to attack the 30 vacant anchors in the portfolio. We’ve got 28 basically committed at this point. But it was about trying to figure out the right answer for those vacant anchors, so we can get traffic back in place.

This comes back to, what are we supposed to do as landlords? Drive traffic and increase dwell time, which generates more sales for tenants, and have the ability to increase net operating income, leasing and operating synergies for us throughout the center. The Path Forward basically accomplishes that. We’re investing $1.2 billion into the portfolio in the form of development, tenant allowance and capital. And we’re going to generate a tremendous number of new leases as part of this.

We have $140 million of SNO — signed, not open leases. That’s basically incremental revenue over what the existing tenant was paying, or vacant. About 80 percent of that $140 million drops down in the form of NOI. So, as we’re going through this exercise, we’re shedding debt by giving properties back or selling them, and monetizing out parcels and land to pay down debt. And then this SNO comes in from 2026 through 2028, and that drives us to earnings and that earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization (EBITDA) target we’re looking for. 

When shopping centers are underperforming, how do you differentiate which might be good candidates for renovation and which should just be sold off?

To me, it starts with trade area. Trade area and competition. I’ll look at: Is the trade area growing in terms of population, income and demographically? Is the trade area stable? The Research Triangle down in Raleigh, N.C., is growing. Lots of new jobs. 

Second, how does the property’s current trade area fit within that demographic? And, then, obviously, what’s happening with competition in that market from existing shopping centers, existing regional malls and lifestyle centers? And then we look at how that all fits within a 10-year investment window. 

You said in a recent earnings call that Macerich did 1.5 million square feet of leasing in the third quarter, which was an 81 percent uptick from the same quarter last year. Talk about how you got there, including the company’s general leasing strategies, particularly related to anchor tenants.

We’re over 70 percent complete at this point. What I’ve learned in this process is that the tenant demand was always there. We just didn’t have the inventory available to meet the demand. What the Path Forward does is enable us to put the inventory out and try to maximize the rent with the tenancy we think will drive traffic and dwell time. 

And it’s happening faster, from a volume and velocity standpoint, than expected. Our net effective rents — rents minus tenant allowances and landlord work — are in excess of our five-year plan’s assumptions. 

Who are some of the biggest tenants you’ve brought in? 

We’ve got eight committed Dick’s House of Sport. We’ve been able to accomplish a lot with them. We’ve got Apple, Alo, Skims. We just opened an entertainment tenant, Level99. We’re super excited about that.

What is one tenant currently not in your portfolio that you really want to bring to Macerich?

I haven’t seen it yet, but I’m intrigued with Pokiddo. It’s opening in Staten Island, and I’m going to the grand opening to look at it very carefully. It’s from China, and it’s like a jump park. It’s all about families. I want to bring the families to our properties. I want to bring Gen Z. I want people to have reasons to come to our properties and get something unique. Level99 is that way. Eataly is that way. Dick’s House of Sport is that way.

I’m always looking for the new and emerging. Netflix House in Dallas is opening in December. I need to go look at those. I’m consistently trying to look at things that are unique — sustained entertainment.

How big a factor is experiential retail in what you’re seeking for Macerich’s properties?

It’s not just experiential. We have to, in my opinion, provide the best of what I call merchandising entertainment — a value-added environment for people to show up in the mall. We want the best retailers, defined by the best inventory, service, experience and concept. Dick’s House of Sport nails it at the department store level. 

In the mall itself, we have to have the best restaurants and the best entertainment-oriented items. We have to have the best and newest brands for Gen Z. So, Pop Mart is popping up all over the place. Cider is a new one.

Things are very Instagram- and TikTok-oriented, and so is Gen Z, which is a big component of what we are driving for. They love going to shopping malls. They love the physical experience. They want value and service. They want what’s cool, the thing that’s most happening. So we’ve had to really rethink how shopping centers should be, because they’re still evolving. 

Do you have an in-house social media person?

We do. I actually created a Gen Z committee. Like you guys, I’m too old. I wanted to understand what Gen Z is looking for over the next three, five, 10 years in the physical environment.

Dick’s House of Sport is a great example of redefining what sporting goods should be, engaging customers from the earliest ages and taking them all the way through. It’s a really interesting concept and strategy. My hope is that other department stores will see that and understand what it really means. It’s not just about going in to buy something; it’s about really capturing the customer and making them want to come back with concepts that really resonate. What we’re trying to do as a landlord is related to that. 

You have properties, like the Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream, N.Y., that seem like shopping centers on the outside, when people first drive up. Then, they become malls on the inside. Is there any distinction left between malls and shopping centers? 

Our national tenants are actually agnostic between open-air and indoor environments. Their principal driver is traffic. They want large and sustained traffic from the right demographic in the trade area they’re focused on. That’s what they want, whether it’s in an open or closed environment. 

A great example would be the Chandler Fashion Center in Arizona. We opened a Scheels there, which is an amazing store. That store has increased the trade area and center traffic incrementally by over 20 percent — not just traffic incrementally coming in, but that actual zip code analysis of the trade area increased that strongly. All the tenancy in that Scheels’ wing has changed; it’s upgraded, with more vibrancy.

And Dick’s House of Sport. At the Freehold Center in New Jersey, traffic was about 14 to 15 percent higher throughout the whole center after the first week it opened, and that has maintained. Those kinds of concepts are important. 

Some malls and shopping centers are opening hotels or attached residential properties. Is that becoming more of a conventional strategy? 

Not as conventional as getting the shopping center operating properly. The demand for those might not make economic sense or drive traffic. If I’ve got an anchor location where I can’t drive traffic with a retail orientation, then what’s the next highest and best use? Could be a hotel, or an office building, or multifamily. But is that really going to drive incremental traffic in the same way that a Dick’s House of Sport can? Probably not.

And then the question is, what’s the return on investment? Do I build it myself, or do I sell the land and then set up a reciprocal easement agreement? But that’s not the core strategy. The core strategy is creating vibrant centers that drive traffic.

How have tariffs impacted Macerich’s business in 2025?

Thankfully, so far, we have not experienced any adjustment to our leasing velocity. That being said, we’re obviously concerned about it, talking to tenants and trying to understand what’s been happening. The quality national retailers we’re really focused on have multiyear growth initiatives in some cases, and have not shown any sign of slowing that down. So there hasn’t been a big impact for us as a landlord. 

Is Macerich in acquisition mode? And, if so, what is the process for evaluating malls and shopping centers for potential acquisitions?

The answer to the first question is yes, we have been in acquisition mode. Case in point, the Crabtree Valley Mall in Raleigh. [Macerich acquired the mall in June 2025.] 

But, when we came up with the Path Forward, we were shedding certain assets, like The Oaks, Santa Monica Place or Lakewood Center Mall. These were significant properties for the company before I came in. One of the things I talked to the team about was, “If we’re able to accomplish this Path Forward, we get to recreate the portfolio to our desire based on our property rankings and what’s important for us: trade area, competition, growth.” Crabtree was an example of that. 

We have reduced assets in California — the three I just mentioned were about 3-plus million square feet of space — and replaced them with a 1.4 million-square-foot regional shopping center with a lot of growth in Raleigh-Durham. To me, what the Path Forward proves is we can acquire again, and, if we accomplish what we set out to do, I believe we’ll have the cost of capital from our investors. In order to effectuate that, I’ll also be open to joint ventures.

Looking ahead, how do you see Macerich progressing next year and over the next five years in general?

In 2026, we want to finish the leasing initiatives we set out to accomplish. We’re over 70 percent leased, and we talked about getting to 85 percent by the middle of 2026. I hope to be further along than that and basically complete by year-end 2026 our leasing initiatives, inline and anchor. 

What that means is, when we get to 2028, we will have tremendously vibrant shopping centers in the existing portfolio. Traffic should be thriving. We’ll use mid- to late 2026 and beyond to strategically look at areas and assets that we think fit the portfolio, and then the question will be trying to finance those acquisitions in a way that is creative to our 2028 earnings and leverage plan.

How do you see retail and the shopping center-mall industry in the U.S. right now?

In the regional mall space, there’s going to be a slow, continued reduction in the number of centers that are open in the United States. I think higher-graded assets are going to consolidate trade area, traffic, profitability and value over the next five to 10 years. There will be, in my opinion, a tremendous increase in value in those centers because you can’t replace them. 

Where did you grow up? 

I grew up in San Francisco. I was first generation. My parents immigrated to the United States in the early 1950s. 

You have a master’s degree in architecture from Harvard. Why did you not take that path?

I realized quickly while dealing with clients, who were mostly developers, that they were the ones driving design and build decisions. I wanted to be on that side. 

Where do you live?

We have a home in L.A., a home in New York City and a home in Dallas. Dallas is my residency.

Do you have any hobbies?

I’m passionate about golf and tennis. I played junior tennis competitively. I walked on with the UC Berkeley tennis team. And what I’d call big-game, offshore fishing. That’s been a big passion. I’m going to Costa Rica next week, marlin fishing for a few days. 

Still, I imagine there’s not a lot of free time for you these days. 

Unfortunately, not too much. I’m a student of retail right now. 

Larry Getlen can be reached at lgetlen@commercialobserver.com.